10/21/17 ADDRESSING ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED two passages

10/21/17 ADDRESSING ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED

two passages

Here are two articles I wrote concerning the belief in Once Saved, Always Saved.

The first article, 08/27/13 HE THAT DOES EVIL HAS NOT SEEN GOD?, addresses the passage that seems to say that a person who does evil was never saved.
The second article, 08/28/13 DO NOT TURN FROM RIGHTEOUSNESS, addresses the passage that says God will not remember the righteous deeds of a person who turns back from redemptive righteousness to sin.

# 1 of 2 articles.
08/27/13 HE THAT DOES EVIL HAS NOT SEEN GOD?
I just got a theology lesson from my grandson, Timothy, who is 5 years old. This morning, as his mom was reading from 2 and 3 John, he sat and listened. When she finished he asked about 3 Jn. 1:11, which says, "Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God." Timothy said that the devil has done evil, but has seen God. Hmm?

Great question.

Here is my answer.
It is relational, not historical. When a person gets saved, in the eyes of God, it is as if the person has never sinned. God knows everything, so God knows the person has sinned, but God does not count his sins against him, because they are atoned for in Christ.

LIKEWISE, when a person, even a person who has previously had a right relationship with God; even the devil (prior to his fall), when he was the angel Lucifer, he had "seen" God, that is, had known God (as in 1 Jn. 3:6; please read vss. 6-9), but he obviously did evil afterwards. As far as God is concerned, Satan had no prior relationship with God or the prior relationship has no bearing on the present reality.

In the same way, when a person becomes a believer in Christ, but then returns to sin, God does not recognize the previous relationship any more than He recognizes previous sins of a saved person (see Ezekiel 33:11-29). Our present relationship either "hides" our sins (Ja. 5:20; 1 Pe. 4:8) or "hides" our previous right relationship with God. Here is what Jesus said to his followers.

Matthew 7:16-23
(16) Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
(17) Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
(18) A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
(19) Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
(20) Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
(22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
(23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Timothy's question gave me the example of someone who has seen God, but is in sin, yet from God's point of view, the sinner (or the sinning devil) has never seen God.

1 John 3:4-10
(4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
(5) And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
(6) Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
(7) Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
(8) He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
(9) Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
(10) In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Ezekiel 33:11-20 (vss, 11-20, not through 29)
(11) Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
(12) Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth.
(13) When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.
(14) Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right;
(15) If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die.
(16) None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live.
(17) Yet the children of thy people say, The way of the Lord is not equal: but as for them, their way is not equal.
(18) When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby.
(19) But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live thereby.
(20) Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. O ye house of Israel, I will judge you every one after his ways.

James 5:20
(20) Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

1 Peter 4:8
(8) And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.

# 2 of 2 articles
08/28/13 DO NOT TURN FROM RIGHTEOUSNESS
Ezekiel 33:13
I started to make this a comment in my previous post, but it is important enough to stand by itself.

God tells us in Ezekiel 33:13 that a truly righteous man (by redemption) can lose that righteousness.
God can tell a man that he SURELY has life, and then tell the same man that he would die for his sins.

Ezekiel 33:13
(13) When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.

DLG note...
God told Ezekiel to tell the righteous man (the man who is righteous by God's redemptive work)...

1- He (the righteous man) would surely live. This indicates that the "righteous man" was truly righteous and not self righteous, otherwise God would not tell him that he would surely live. Also...

2- God told the righteous man that IF he (the righteous man), should then trust in his own righteousness (which is not true righteousness), and the man should then commit sin, God would not remember that man, based on the man's former redemptive righteousness. God would remember none of the man's righteousnesses (the good works he did as a believer) any more than God will remember the sins of a person who turns from sin and truly trusts in God.

The "righteousnesses" in this passage refers to the righteous deeds done in the flesh (by the righteous man during his earthly life). Remember, in Revelation 19:8 the righteousness of the saints refers to the righteous deeds of the believers.

The saved person who performs righteous deeds (by the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit) will be rewarded for his deeds, just as the unsaved person will be judged and recompensed for his evil deeds, done in the flesh.

3- God told the man who had been truly righteous (but who then trusted his own righteousness and sinned), that He (God) would judge the man, based on the man's sins and he would die for his sins.

Our previous sins do not condemn us, if we are presently redeemed.
Our previous redemptive righteousness does not save us, if we are presently in sin.
This is quickly reiterated in Ez. 33:18-19.

Ezekiel 33:18-19
(18) When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby.
(19) But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live thereby.

We have two examples of free moral beings turning from righteousness to rebellion and being cast off from God.

Lucifer, the archangel of God, willfully rebelled against God and became Satan, the archenemy of God. This righteous angel, along with all the other rebellious angels, lost his righteousness. Remember, Lucifer was created righteous. I will come back to this later.

Adam, the first man, was created in the image of God, therefore he was righteous, without sin, yet Adam willfully disobeyed God and was separated from God. Adam became sinful, along with his wife, Eve, who had also been created as a righteous person. Adam fathered an entire race of sin corrupted children. Adam's (and Eve's) separation from God could only be reconciled if they came into a personal and living relationship with God through faith.

Created Righteous
Lucifer, as an angel, as well as Adam and Eve, as the first human beings, were righteous from the time they were created by God. However, they lost their righteousness because of rebellion, sin.

Believers are made righteous by the atonement. Therefore a person may be tempted to think that redemptive righteousness is different from created righteousness, and would not allow the possibility of someone abandoning their right relationship with God. NO. NOT THE CASE.

If anything, it would be harder to conceive that an inherently righteous being, created by God as righteous, could abandon his nature, than to believe that a sinful creature could abandon a righteousness that was obtained by faith. After all, the righteousness of salvation is the gift of God and received by faith, therefore, faith is a condition of righteousness. Redeemed people are children of God by faith (Galatians 3:26) and they are righteous by faith (Romans 4:19), whereas Lucifer, Adam and Eve were righteous by nature.

But also consider this. Believers are not simply seen as righteous, or called righteous by God, in spite of their actual condition, believers are righteous, even as God is righteous, because believers are created in righteousness and true holiness.

Ephesians 4:24
(24) And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

God does not remember (hold against us) our sins if we trust in Christ to forgive and cleanse us from our sins.
In the same way, God does not remember (recognize, honor) the righteousness a person had though faith in Christ, once that person turns from faith.

The Bible clearly teaches that a created being can turn from natural righteousness, and that a redeemed person can turn from righteousness by faith.

This addresses the meaning of the New Testament passages that tell us God does not remember or recognize a person's former state of righteousness, if that person turns from trusting God to trusting his own righteousness.